i think you are missing the point
there are already set asides for individuals who make art / effigy ect. / board members i am sure/
What i am suggesting is not some VIP free comp list scenario, what i am talking about is a co-op

the way the system works right now is does not promote an inclusive community
it is actually the opposite , despite what anybody else would have you believe.
why is it always so hard to find volunteers, as i said before is there is really no pay back expect personal satisfaction, which is fine for some people.

but having been here since the beginning
and knowing that one of the stated goals of this organization is to eventually find a permanent home aod space for artists to be creative
just how would you suggest that access to said site be regulated and controlled,
who would get to use it ?

members would

who are the members?
all of us and none of us
I for one have paid my dues , twice a year most years , since the beginning, and by dues I mean my twice yearly ticket cost
as well as providing theme camp, running the stage or building something that burns, and aside from the adulation of the crowd ,which certainly is payment enough, what does my investment of time and effort net me. nada

just how much money is in the account of this non profit whose stated goal is to promote the arts and find PERMANENT HOME for the event , property of OUR OWN.

but who are WE and who would get access?

sooner or later this is a deep philosophical question that needs to be answered
and the answer is right in front of us. look at the VVMC and what they have done with our help

with all respects Brother Daniel, i am aware that you may have been aware and attending this event for a reasonable time, but i doubt that you were there in the early days when it was closer to a cow pasture than it is today. The VVMC is a classic co-op with members putting in dues/ membership fees to have access to a place where like minded people can congregate. the fact that we have a relationship that has grown is a wonderful thing, but eventually , and in my mind sooner rather than later, PDF will need to find a greener pasture and finally have a place of there own. i am sure there are plenty of artists and theme camps who would prefer early access to the site to set up. at the present time this is not an option, or barely an option. PDF started with an everybody is equal mentality, but now some are more equal than others, it really is true.

This is deeper than just going to a party. this is a multilayered discussion on the essence of community, who values the community and who does the board answer to.

If and when PDF finally gets its act together and delivers on its stated goal of finding a home for the arts and radical self expression, these issues will need to be resolved

MONK E
PDF community member since 1998

i don't like what you are implying about me, and what i am suggesting is not contrary to the principles of the burning community at all.
You shouldn't speak about which you seem to know little about. Transformus was ousted because of issues of embezzlement.
whether or not my proposal is copacetic with the burningman llc is a completely different issue altogether. I am sure none of their board members pay for a ticket nor any of there dpw


actually here are those said principles
* Radical inclusion - Anyone who can afford a ticket is welcomed and there are no prerequisites to be part of Burning Man.[22] All participants are expected to provide for their own basic needs and follow the minimal rules of the event.
* Gifting - Instead of cash, event participants are encouraged to rely on a gift economy, a sort of potlatch. In the earliest days of the event, an underground barter economy also existed, in which burners exchanged "favors" with each other. While this was originally supported by the Burning Man organization, this is now largely discouraged. Instead, burners are encouraged to give gifts to one another unconditionally.
* Decommodification - No cash transactions are permitted at the event in accordance with the principles of Burning Man, with the exception of the following:[23]
o Café beverages such as coffee, chai, lemonade, etc., which are sold at Center Camp Café.[24]
o Ice.[25] Ice sales benefit the local Gerlach-Empire school system.
o Tickets for the shuttle bus to the nearest Nevada communities of Gerlach and Empire which is operated by contractor Green Tortoise.[26]
o A re-entry wristband, which allows a person to leave and re-enter the event and may be purchased at the gate upon exit.[27]
o An airport use fee, payable at the airport upon first entry.[28]
o Diesel and biodiesel
o RV dump service and camp graywater disposal service.[29]
o Private portable toilets and servicing, which can be arranged with the official contractor.
* Radical self-reliance - Because of the event's harsh environment and remote location, participants are expected to be responsible for their own subsistence. Since the LLC forbids any commerce, participants must be prepared and bring all their own supplies with the exception of the items stated in Decommodification.[30]
* Radical self-expression - Participants are encouraged to express themselves in a number of ways through various art forms and projects. The event is clothing-optional and public nudity is common, though not practiced by the majority.[31][32]
* Communal effort - Participants are encouraged to work with and help fellow participants.[33]
* Civic responsibility - Participants are encouraged and assume responsibility to be part of a civil society in which federal, state and local laws are obeyed and communicate this to other participants.[33]
* "Leave No Trace" - Participants are committed to a "leave-no-trace" event. They strive to leave the area around them in better condition than before their arrival to ensure their participation does not have a long term impact on the environment.[33]
* Participation - Burning Man is about participation.[33]
* Immediacy - Participants are encouraged to become part of the event, to experience who and what is around them and to explore their inner selves and their relation to the event.[33]

please cite what you see in my proposal that is contrary to any of the proceeding,
and in your mind are comp tickets in exchange for volunteer labor contrary to these principles
(because that is standard operating procedeure at burningman)

not that i am talking about comp tickets, i am just asking your opinion of that issue

and yes burns are special events
separate from the electronic music and drug orgies that seem so common today
and that is why I love PDF

but truth be told some burners are already more equal than others

not implying that i have some sort of special status, its just a simple fact that there are always
politics and alliances in any organization

this is not VIP NOT comps and not a lifetime free ticket
its a lifetime reserved ticket which you have to pay for

and just for shits and giggles here is the wiki for a cooperative (co op)
Cooperatives are based on the co-operative values of "self-help, self-responsibility, democracy and equality, equity and solidarity" and the co-operative principles of “voluntary and open membership; democratic member control; member economic participation; autonomy and independence; education and training; co-operation among co-operatives; and concern for community”.[12] Also, in the tradition of their founders, cooperative members believe in the ethical values of honesty, openness, social responsibility and caring for others. Such legal entities have a range of unique social characteristics. Membership is open, meaning that anyone who satisfies certain non-discriminatory conditions may join. Economic benefits are distributed proportionally according to each member's level of participation in the cooperative, for instance by a dividend on sales or purchases, rather than divided according to capital invested. Cooperatives may be generally classified as either consumer cooperatives or producer cooperatives. Cooperatives are closely related to collectives, which differ only in that profit-making or economic stability is placed secondary to adherence to social-justice principles. Co-ops can be identified on the Internet through the use of the .coop gTLD. Those using .coop domain names must adhere to these the basic co-op values.

which sounds pretty burner to me

monk e

membership would be an optional expense
membership would have easily obtained requirements that any dedicated burner would be able to acheive
a members ticket would be nontransferable
a members ticket would not count against the cap


this is the example i want you to think about
if its 300 people who are initially eligible and they pay in $200 each thats $60,000

easily a down payment of a nice piece of property
and finding a permanent piece of property is a stated goal of THIS organization
and just as membership has its privileges it would also have its responibilites
it wouldn't be a free ride

and to andrew please cite your authority and or reason to believe that a co-op would not be
copasetic with burningman LLC. Just saying so because you believe it to be true is misinformation
opinion isn't fact. i believe it would not be although also believe it could be if it was exclusionary, which we as a community
would craft to avoid.

monk e
pdf membersince1998

yeah and if these tickets arent paid within the one week allotment allow them to go back to "gen-pop"

matt- i am glad we had a dedicated volunteer staff in the spring - fantastic

really shows community commitment
now bring some stats on volunteer burnout and repeat volunteers so we can really see what we are dealing with

hunny bear thanks for bringing that book to my attention, i was not aware of it
and as like you i am unaware of its slant but i am aware of the changes i have personally witnessed
the anecdotal stories i have gathered from trusted sources in person and thru the web and its clear to me that
most people believe the myth of what burningman stood for which is a noble thing and are not aware of the internecine politics and machinations of what its today and what it is becoming.

well as they say ignorance is bliss, and i am of the opinion that its the experience of the individual in the desert that is actually the more important thing to take away from the event, but i fear that at this point the desert experience has been seriously co-opted by the mainstream and the principles that guide are not really getting through to that mainstream in a big enough percentage to make a difference and what we are left with is just a big rave with generally mediocre art.

aside - rave used to be something special - cross cultural, underground, party people who helped one another
its not so much anymore. now its more homogeneous, mainstream, party people just looking for a good time,
every once in a while you find it like it used to be, but not often

pdf has the essence of early rave in its cross cultural roots and participants, but i have watched it become less so and this worries me.
this is the strong case for "respect your elders" especially the ones that built the framework that the newbies come and enjoy
instead of throwing them off the island

observation- one of the strange things about spring was that i had never heard so many really good sound camps in the past as i did last spring, yet very few, if any of those camps was truly "off the hook" in terms of critical mass of making butts shake.
i think there was too much of a good thing and so no reason for anybody to stay in one place long enough to really get the party started, if you know what i mean. your experience may differ but that's the way i saw it. an extra 500 people would have helped that

and its true what someone said earlier that PDF has been an ochlocracy ( mob rules) for a long time and i believe that this model can't continue to stand for long and that a truer form of democratic community building mode would arise from a co-op model that
so far no one has really refuted as not falling in line with the spirit of the 10 founding principles of burningman. and since it would be completely optional it would not cause financial heartache on those who didn't want to exercise that option.

"all burners are equal some are more equal than others-"

That is BULLSHIT SNOBBERY. I can't even say I'm angered by the statement you just made. It just makes me sad. Really, really sad and disapointed and let down.

As far as having a home of our own, why, so we can be subject to raids and police brutality? No thanks.