your not the only one. someone i meet had things of theres stollen from there car. karma will catch them!

what an ass hat. if we find who they are, BoF will turn them into fire art.

Do you remember where your camera was exactly? I know several people (including me) have video of the event. Maybe someone caught the thief on video?

- Mad Hatter

That really blows.

Does anyone else know whether this PDF was different from past PDFs in terms of thefts or other problems?

I hate to see people take things at an event where everyone gives there all. If I had anything that someone needed bad enough I would just give it to them. Who would need to steal?

All the reported stolen things this PDF is getting rather scary? I know alot of leave many things of value at times in all our camp sites making u s all very vulnerable. How can we prevent it? I guess all we can do is start locking valuables up in cars or something. This is just really sad..

it seems like a lot of things went missing, and respect went missing in inappropriate ways. I feel like a lot of people had no idea what was up. I dont know, it seemed like a frat party sometimes- like a lot of people just heard about a big party and tried to be the first to buy tickets, as opposed to being people who understood and were respectful of the values of our community. Maybe there should be a 10 principles pop quiz at the gate..?

yeah I'm starting to notice an environment change too. Word is getting around about the awesome party that we are and how cheap it is and not understanding the respectful burner element. They don't understand the point of Playa, and I'm seeing these types of people grow in numbers. I understand why we can't screen people, it's just really sad that because the event is growing in popularity that we have to get double the ass holes too.
Sigh.... I'm just disappointed that I can't let my guard down for a second. This is really just too much.

... my wallet is missing, along with my spare pare of glasses (which were broken anyway)... I don't know about you guys, but I noticed a lot of people walking around alone at the camps at all strange times of the night when most people were sleeping or when everyone was at the burn. I tried not to go back to my tent to often, becuase I kind of felt like "someone" out there was stalking me simply because their ego got to fucking big.

Maybe we can set out a busted digital camera (so it doesn't matter if it's stolen) out in the open and rig up some of those motion activated game cameras near the "bait." Put the set up at a theme camp that tends to go to sleep early so legit camp members are not wandering around triggering the camera.

It really sucks for me to hear about thefts at PDF, especially since I never really considered it a problem. I like the idea of being able to just throw my bag down and have fun to come back to it 25 minutes later and not worry about missing my digital camera or whatever. I'd hate to have to change my mind.

That said I'm still not convinced it's a huge problem - many "thefts" are probably actually "losses," but in this thread with everything thinking about theft, it makes sense that it seems more like a theft now, if that makes sense.

As for hoops going missing and such - I recommend writing on the hoop or other object, "please return to XXX theme camp." We all know there is plenty of inebriation at PDF and it's possible someone may wake up in the morning and say, "Aww crap, where did this nice hoop come from?" Even if you do not belong with a theme camp, I'm sure many of the established camps wouldn't mind hanging on to something in case the owner wanders by - at least you'll have a place to go looking for it.

Jen, I'm sorry to hear about your money.

Thank you Calamity for getting this before I did, but to correct the flash light, it is a little LED flashlight that can be clipped. It is grey. and not to mention the IPOD is new. I got it in December of last year. Not to mention you had to reach into my hearse window and grab it. You are just lucky I did not catch you cause your arm might have been broken. That takes guts to do something like that.

This was my first burn, not only did I have things stolen, but my faith in humanity also. I was told how great PDF is, well after reading the posts and having my stuff stolen, makes me wonder how great PDF really is

I had a similar problem. I was going over to my tent where I saw 2 people bent down looking at my things (clothing). Long story short both of them were very persistent in wanting to "have" my things. I explained there were a couple camps dedicated to clothing exchanges and gifting and they still felt the need to tell me "well we want your stuff". I felt extremely ganged up on, so I just gave them a few things to get them away from me. I cannot believe people would do this to anyone. It almost made me feel bad because I didn't want to seem selfish like "oh these are MY things and you can't have them", but when someone demands I give them something I felt violated. Where have all the burners gone!

My own opinion on the matter is that the ticket price should definitely be increased. I think that $35.00 just makes it too easy for a non PDFer to come along and think wow, what a great price for a party. Free alcohol, free food, free entertainment, free camping, and all I have to do for it is act like an idiot. I believe that if we want to attract radical thinking artists, creative individuals and much more honesty, then that ticket price needs to be above the amount that some broke ass thief can pay and not too much above what a serious PDFer is willing to pay. If a PDFer is unable to afford the cost then there should be an abundance of hardship tickets available to the serious individuals who want to take the time to apply for them. Some drugged out moron who doesn't get it is not going to take the time to apply for one. I, myself, am more than willing to make the sacrifice of paying extra for a ticket in order to clean up the bullshit that has been noticeably increasing over the last few burns.
I also have a strong opinion on the amount of children there. There are many parents that I can say that I respect for the way that they watch over their children, but then there are many minors that I watched roaming through the red light district, during the daytime and late at night very much unattended. I just wouldn't bring my child to this event, I just don't get how it is child friendly at all. My own personal opinion is that the child ticket price should be increased, if not double to that of an adults. I'd hate to tell someone that you should leave your children at home, but at the same time, what do we do and how do we handle it when one sick ass perv gets drugged up or drunk enough to take advantage of one of those children.
I think the theft is a wake up call. I believe that now comes the time to make a decision as to what needs to be done to curb other things that are slowly getting out of control. I guess it is a matter of which direction PDFers would like to see their beloved PDF flow in. I believe that the options are to make it more expensive and attract more artists and free thinkers and actual burners or just let it go to the dealers.

~Chelas

No matter what or where you go, no matter how much you raise ticket prices there will still be problems. You get a bunch of people together something is bound to happen. I agree with Pirate Tim, the vets kids were a bit of a problem. This PDF seemed VERY different from all the other ones and I have a feeling that last fall may have been the last true PDF. I REALLY hope that I'm wrong I only think about PDF about 54 times a day...

this is all so fucked up.

I had $20 and a handful of cartridges taken out of my tent, but I didn't realize till just before leaving by counting my money again.

This is such a wonderful place and I love the people who make it what it is, and its terrible that a few assholes have to make us all paranoid.

YES!!!
I DO WANT TO EMPHASIZE AS WELL.
THIS WAS MY BEST PDF YET!!
DESPITE LOOSING THE MONEY.

PDF has been the greatest discovery in the world to me and even if someone had sotlen everything I owned, I would be back again.
I've learned lesson and whoever is stealing things has issues, but I fully agree with Mel not to let it ruin what we have.
I would give up many things and do to be at the playa and I can handle a little more.
Please do not take the thefts as a negative feel towards the playa.
Be angry with those who stole and use it as a lesson.
We must protect our things as well as each others things.


I also agree about possibly raising prices. I am a poor college kid who can barely afford food sometimes
and yet for the playa I'd be willing to save and spend more for a ticket because I love the community so much.
I def believe it will help sort out those who are not true to the playa.
Not stop it but help.

ANYWAY, cheer up folks. Don't let this ruin your good memories. I'm not.
The point of this forum was mainly to shout out and hopefully put guilt into the thefts heart.
Not make anyone love the playa less.
Please lets all put on some smiles, find peace, forgiveness, and remember the good.
I've already forgiven and moved on.
It's healthy and will protect our loving PDF.

LOVE THE PONY!!!

Stunt Man,
Yes it was in the camp area. I had an onsite parking pass. What I meant about humanity is it is kinda sad that you goto an event like PDF and you can't even trust others. I know their is always going to be an ass, but this is the place to get away from them. I had the passenger window down cause 10 cans of fuel in a locked up car, and very hot weather bad combination.

I know next time if their iwll be one, don't take the hearse, and bring less. Kinda sad if you ask me. but oh well,

It was interesting for me to find this thread today. Some of my friends and I felt that this burn was 'different' somehow and I was wondering if others felt the same. I realize that every burn is 'different' in one way or another and that they all bring new joys and challenges. That is part of the beauty of PDF. However, I had several conversations during the weekend, with both old and new friends that indicated concern for the direction the burn was taking. It did, to me, seem to be more of a 'rave' or 'party' burn than in the past. That is not to say that there were not many exceptions to that observation, nor that I did not partake of Teh Booze. ;-)
I'm not interested in creating online drama so I will not name people or times or places, but I had at least one experience with a stranger that reflected a very real lack of understanding of the Burner ethos. It was disappointing, hurtful and surprising. A friend that was with me at the time stated that I looked, 'taken aback' and indeed, I was. In fact, I felt as though perhaps I didn't 'fit in' at PDF any longer. I take responsibility for my side of that experience. I don't blame anyone else for my own insecurity, however, the other individual was obviously responsible for their rude and unwelcoming behavior.
When I shared my experience with a long time burner friend, they suggested that this was a challenge. I could leave PDF and my process of becoming a consistent part of the burner community or I could abandon the event to those that would treat others as they had treated me. They made an excellent point.
WE make this event. WE make it what it is. WE make it what it will be and WE are responsible for its future. Speak up if you're being treated poorly and please, KEEP COMING!!!!
As an aside...while this was a hard burn for me, I had a wonderful time, and in actuality I came away from it in a state of greater emotional wholeness. Thank you to all that supported me and laughed with me. You know who you are!
Love to all and see you in the fall! ;-D

Something stolen? Get a Ranger
See something suspicious? Get a Ranger
Feeling frisky? Get a Ranger

ya'll want some cheese with your whine?

Seriously guys, one thing that has always erked me about the Playa... is you all assume that as soon as people walk through the gates, that they will all of a sudden go through some kind of spiritual upheaval. Come on guys, grow up. There are a lot of shitty people out in the world, get used to it. Don't leave your tent flaps unzippered, don't leave your bags outside of your tent, don't leave your car unlocked or your windows down, and don't wear anything that you wouldn't want to see on the internet. This was only my second PDF, and I had such a great weekend.

OK I guess I came across wrong. I know the rangers are not my MOMMY. I know that they are their to have fun. I know it was my fault that I left he window down, but let me think here, Oh that is why I did not goto the Ranger, cause an IPOD is small and can fit in your pocket. It was late Sunday night/early Monday morning when I found out. All I know is it became missing from Friday. night to when I found out about it Sunday night. I was dealing with alot of shit by this point and the IPOD thing was just the icning on the cake.

Now as for being a first time burner "VIRGIN" I was told oh how wonderful PDF is, how PDF is what the real world should be. I guess I was just to trusting of others, my bad.

I do have to agree, y'all do seem to walk through a door that when that door closses their is nothing but all goodness, you can kick people out, but they will come back around and jump the fence again in the back field. They can get back on the wagon and sit in the middel so they can't be seen. If they want back in they will do so. I only piped in on this thread to let Jen know she is not the only one.

As for Lee, it pisses me off that it was stolen, *SIGH* back to CDs for performances. It was a bran new IPOD. Yes I meet good people, but they can't return my personal property. I do hope it brings them enjoyment, I hope they learn new music, but I am also a Massage therapist that only has about 5 clients a month. SO it is not like I am rich and can get a new one because some shit faced D Bag wants to feel free to help them selfs to others belongings. Maybe PDF should have the VETS do rangering from now on, maybe they will get shit done if the Rangers are their to just send people to a corner and have time out.

As being a virgin burner this year it has put real bad tast in my mouth about PDF. The vibe I did get was this was a big frat party. Yes I did meet good peps, but their was a 1000 people their and I can't meet all of them.

Like I said IF I do return in the Fall, I will bring just what I need, a few outfits and my fire tools, and not the hearse.

Take this post to how you want to, I don't realy care.

IF you volunteer to be a ranger, don't drink or par take in any other activites. Plain and simple. Open your eyes and realise you can make the tickets $500 or free, the point is if someone is going to steal, they will do it no matter how rich they are or poor. They still will do it.

OK this has gotten out of hand, I only responded to what Jen has said, and now instead people being aware that PDF is not some fairytale land and that you should be more cautious of stuff. I am being attacked.

Yes I did not have the greatest time in my life. I do have some enjoyable moments, but more bad then good.

I am not blaming no one for what happened. If I was going to do that, I would have said I did not put the IPOD into the car, which I did not, but yes soly it is my responsibility to make sure things are out of sight. I failed to so it is my fault no one else's.

I am sure the Rangers do a great job, and IF I do come in the Fall, I will sign up to be one. I honestly don't care if I am liked or disliked. I am a caring person, but fuck with my shit, and I am not a caring person. I will give my shirt off my back, Not my IPOD. Yes if someone needs more then me, then I can't stop them, and their is a reason for them taking it. I guess I will have to dish out another $150.

This PDF has been an eye opener, and IF I do return, then like I said before, I am not bringing my hearse, I am bringing a small bag of cloths, and my fire stuff. That way I have no worries of dishonest people. Before you even say it, yes I know they can take that to if the want. Yes I said before you.

Come on people open your eyes. PDF is a camp out, it has a good meaning, and some of the people their have a good sence of community. but reality is it is a party.
I have meet a lot of good people. I am not closing that out. I have seen that the sense of caring is their. I have also had no luck with my first burn of a "good time" like I thought. I am willing to give stuff a second try, and if I do, it will be different.

So now can we vent and target other negativity to something else? I was just saying what I saw and heard, did not need or want to start a bitch fest to what I said.

A couple of thoughts: and this isn't the first time we've had this discussion.

1) I think Smelly Melly is right, we need to be more careful how we talk up this event. Even if we value partying and geting fu**ed up, telling the baseball cap crowd at the local frat party might not make the event better for the future. When you talk up
pdf, maybe we should be talking up art (THAT should scare them) and community.

2) Maybe during major burns and events, those of us who ranger should spend a bit less time patrolling the burn perimeter and a bit more patrolling the camps for interlopers.

3) Maybe in the survival guide and WWW, we should punch up either leaving valuables at home, keeping them on your person, or locking them in your trunk.

Mungp

OK time to get the shit rolling this time. I just received a phone call tonight saying your IPOD is in my purse. When my ex went into the tent Friday night she must have put it in her purse. She said she don't know why cause she never touched her purse. I am sorry to start shit and I know I am going to get more shit and be a bigger ass. OH well I am just happy that some shit head did not take it.

So go ahead not start the shit talk, and IF I still come back next Fall I am still packing light.

I do admit that i might have over reacted, but when I found out about it being missing and the events of the weekend, I was like great, one more thing. Yes I might have had my head up my ass, I have been homeless before and lost everything I owned, and I came back. I kow it is materialistic, but like I said after everything that had happen, I did get pissed. Calamity did call and said she was soprry, oh well shit happens.

Just like when you lose $36.00.

well this poses an interesting question. what were you doing with money in a gift economy, Jen? ;-)

i'm joking of course. as much as we'd all like to think that burns & Burning Man are these bastions of utopia for most of us, at the same time we must remember that this is technically a festival, and when you participate in or attend a festival you must ALWAYS take precautions. a mantra i always follow: "love everyone, trust no one".

but look at the bright side: at least your camera didn't get stolen. that's happened to a few friends of mine and it SUCKS because not only are you out a couple hundred dollars, but you've also been robbed of all the great pictures you took!

It's SOOO sad that THIS topic wins the WindBag Award with 149 replies so far! Couldn't somebody have just taken a dump at Fireside Lounge instead of pitifully stealing cash and then causing this long discussion of Theft and Moral terpitude encroachment into our PDF community?! Sheeesh!

Douche bags and Vagina's.
One cleans and the other is cleaned.
I have got no problem with that.

"We may need less money stealing individuals, but there will never be too many douche bags or vaginas." - AB

wow....
this post is very negative in every way.
why can't there be 160 replys of positive things?
why is it this thread has the most replys?
this is so not what any burn should be like.
if i never went to a burn reading this would persuade not to go. people threatening eachother, making it look like a horrible plase.
honestly people...

you didn't happen to leave it on a chair by the road facing PEX, did you?
I was thinking about it,and remember now that i was going to get my glasses from the chair after the battle and saw money laying there, kind of half in and half out of (what i think was) my friend's bag - which, to my fuzzy recollection, was the only one there. i shoved it inside and started playing with the parachute, then our crew stormed the towers, and i totally forgot and never said anything to anyone about it.. so, if that was your money, it was a case of mistaken ownership, not intentional douuchbaggery. perhaps we can find a way to get it back to you.

Le sigh...

A good portion of this thread makes me a sad panda.
While I didn't read the WHOLE thread, because it's incredibly long.. I did read a good portion of it.



This was my first burner event, and therefore, my first PDF. I camped with Pound On The Playa.

I loved it, and I will be back in the fall to celebrate life with my new found family of burners. People say "Welcome Home" quite frequently at the event, and really, I understand why they do.. because it has become a home for me as well.


To address some things said here though:

First of all I want to address the idea of the ticket prices being raised. I think you're wonderful Chelas, but that is a TERRIBLE idea. It will not discourage people from stealing, it will not discourage people from sneaking in, and it will not discourage people from bringing children. While PDF is an amazing atmosphere and while one would hope no one would purposefully steal from someone.. things like that DO happen, regardless of where you go, and thus you should be intelligent about your stuff. I don't bring money into the event, nor wallets, ID, etc. We also keep all of our clothing, intoxicants, food, fire toys, etc in our tents. But even without taking all those precautions my boyfriend and I had nothing stolen from us. We had to leave late saturday night after the big burn and therefore decided to pack up and put everything away ahead of time. Due to this we had our tent down and all of our belongings out in the open for most of the day(no one likes to get heat stroke so we took many breaks, plus we still wanted to enjoy the festivities throughout the day).. and not a single thing went missing. The vet who drives the tractor was even nice enough later that day, when he saw that we had to tear down early and that we were in the far back field, to offer to take us and all of our stuff directly to our vehicle so we wouldn't have to make multiple trips hauling it all to the car... and we took him up on that offer. The thing is though with stealing that one's wealth, or lack thereof, doesn't make one a thief.. both rich and poor people steal.. because of lack of moral fiber within themselves.
Also, people have to remember that things get mistakenly taken, to check lost and found, and to report it to a ranger... most individuals who go to this event are good people and if they know you're missing something, and happen to find it, chances are it'll make it's way back to you. I agree with those who say that a big part of it is probably random people sneaking in, and we need to figure out some way to stop that from happening. I have a feeling a lot of it may be happening from the back way in as the front one always has people on greeter shifts watching out for that. As far as raising tickets prices discouraging people from bringing children goes.. it probably wouldn't. They'd just end up spending more money than they already are. Besides that, it is my personal opinion that children shouldn't be excluded from this event. It is their parents choice whether or not to bring them, and thus their parents responsibility for what they do, and what they see. At the same time the parents need to respect individual's boundaries; meaning that if you think you wouldn't be comfortable doing something in front of your child(i.e. trampoline blowjobs, lol), don't bring that child to where others are doing things of such nature because chances are they won't be very comfortable with having a child watch them do said things either, whether or not it's their own.. and we don't want to make people uncomfortable about radical self expression. That would be a big no no. At the same time, we want to include everybody, and that means allowing children to come to the event and respecting that the parents will be intelligent and responsible.

Secondly, I agree with smelly mel and others who say that wearing a wristband at all times should be mandatory. This would definitely make it notice-able if someone had snuck in. Aside from that, the wristbands are pretty resilient.. they don't break easily at all.. and if, by some chance, yours happened to break, you should be able to save it and immediately go up to the the participation station(being centralized for the most part) and get another one in my opinion.. but if and only if you obviously have a broken one that you can turn in. The broken ones should be saved and the numbers should be recorded as well as the commitee tallying everyone who leaves the event on the last day so that they can tell exactly how many were sold, how many were given due to broken ones, and how many people left at the end.. so that they can get an estimate on how many people are sneaking in. Yes, it would make leaving more time consuming for everyone if there was a headcount of how many people leave last day, but it would be worth it in my opinion.

Thirdly, for anyone who dislikes the vets or their guest etc.. why? I personally find them amazing. Part of what makes PDF is themselves. They invite us all to so graciously stay on their land and they do this because they understand us and our lifestyles. Aside from that the majority of vets I had the pleasure of meeting were very kind, as I mentioned earlier in this post about the vet who drove the tractor. I also had the pleasure of hanging out with some of the vets on the OTHER side of the road, at their own RV, and frankly.. that moment itself is one of my favorites times at PDF because I realized how amazing those people really are.. and I felt so honored to be allowed to hang out with them(partially since it was at their area.. where one isn't supposed to venture without express permission, but more so because of how amazing they are). Neither myself, nor any family/personal friends that went were harassed by the vets, their guests, or their children as far as I know. The vets who weren't fully out there and sociable etc, were in the least tolerant, polite, and quiet while giving us no grief.

Fourthly, to address Jason(aka Gypsy Jay). You made your own time what it was. You have no one to blame, but yourself, for how you felt. As far as heat exhaustion goes.. you do civil war re-enactments and therefore know how to avoid it, and how to take care of yourself if you do get it. Frankly, the fact that you got it and were so miserable about it, had to do with your own misgivings, and was your own fault.. and I think part of it was about attention, whether negative or positive, but I won't get into that. As far as your things being stolen, You'll probably find the flashlight, and we now know that Calamity Jane had misplaced the IPOD and it is once again in your possession. As far as seeing rangers drink.. no one ever told you they weren't allowed to. What was told to you was that they weren't allowed to get shit faced... and that is the truth. That's all I have to say about all that though... the rest I'm holding my tongue about, it's stupid to argue and I hope that you would have gotten a better experience out of it. I hope you go during fall, and DO get a better experience out of it. Just remember, it's all about your frame of mind, perception, and how honest and open you can be with yourself and others while following the burner lifestyle code of conduct.

Fifth, I also agree with those who say we need to be careful about how we talk up the event, and who we talk it up to. Before telling someone it's the best party you'll ever go to in your life.. mention the art, the ideals, have them read the website.. then show them pictures, and video. Introduce them to it properly, like I was introduced to it. Have discussion about what goes on, how it all fits together. Stress community and participation, as well as radical self reliance, and radical self expression.

And one last thing, while this event was different from previous events, more rave-like, and not as good in many people's personal opinions from what I've read and heard so far(and on that subject I have no opinion, it being my virgin burn and all, except to say that I've been to many raves.. and that was NOT, let me repeat, NOT rave-like.. I mean, sure, aspects of it are.. but it goes way way way way way way way beyond that, and you all should know that.. and if you don't, then go to a rave and see the difference for yourself.).... I would like to quote something from a post earlier in this thread:

"WE make this event. WE make it what it is. WE make it what it will be and WE are responsible for its future. Speak up if you're being treated poorly and please, KEEP COMING!!!!"

and to add to it.. WE also make our OWN experience of the event. It's all about frame of mind, and perception. If you have a shitty time, it's because you CHOSE to have a shitty time. Yes, shitty things can happen to you due to outside circumstances and people, but if you choose to let them dictate your experience they will, if you don't...... they won't.

-Zack